Orlando Massacre: The Need To Challenge Homophobia

Orlando_attack

Just over six months after a Muslim couple killed 14 people in San Bernardino County, USA – killings in whose aftermath US Presidential candidate Donald Trump would call for an immediate ban on all Muslims entering the USA – we have witnessed yet another massacre committed by a US Muslim.

It is too early at this stage to say whether the killer Omar Mateen’s possible mental health issues played a role in the massacre. There will also no doubt be the usual questioning of the ridiculous US gun laws which appear to make lethal weapons readily available to aspiring murderers.

What we can perhaps most safely say at the moment is that the killings which took place in the Orlando gay club were motivated by a virulent form of homophobia.

The main monotheistic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, all have a lamentable record when it comes to the persecution of gays.

A few years back, when I was in the MCB and had written an article for the Guardian defending gay rights, I recall shortly afterwards that the MCB received an email from a leading figure in a Salafi mosque in Luton criticising me in pretty severe terms for my “deviant views”. I just shrugged it off at the time as being the usual narrow-minded nonsense from Salafi nutjobs, but perhaps, in retrospect, I should have called them out openly at the time and challenged their views.

It is sad to see so many Muslims who have first hand experience of anti-Muslim bigotry and discrimination, being too ready to indulge in anti-gay bigotry. As a society, we in the UK have come a commendably long way in just the past thirty years when it comes to recognising anti-gay attitudes and challenging them. It could be that more needs to be done in our schools to teach about the benefits and value of living in a free, secular and liberal society that prohibits discrimination based on gender, ethnicity, religion or sexuality.

Just over three years ago, in May 2013, two UK Muslims killed Fusilier Lee Rigby openly in the streets and boasted that they “wanted to start a war in London.” Fortunately, they failed to achieve that vile aim. It could be that the San Bernardino killers and the Orlando killer, Omar Mateen, also wanted to provoke an anti-Muslim backlash in the USA to further civil disharmony. If so, with the frightening spectre of Donald Trump looming large in the background, one can only hope that they too fail to achieve their dishonourable goals.

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48 Responses to Orlando Massacre: The Need To Challenge Homophobia

  1. Ash. says:

    We condemn this atrocitie committed by this mentally deranged indidvidual…..Rest of your remarks are ignorant nonsense. You dont even know whether homosexuality is halal or haram? Seriuosly.

    • I am not sure which specific part of my article you are objecting to. Possibly almost all of it based on your other comments on my blog.

      In any case, are you disputing that the main monotheistic faiths have an abysmal historical record on human rights particularly in connection with the persecution of gays? Are not modern secular democratic societies to be considered a step forward for prohibiting discrimination based on gender, ethnicity, religion or sexuality?

      Do Muslims living in the West not enjoy more freedoms than just about all Muslim societies allow to non Muslims?

      Shouldn’t we celebrate these freedoms?

      • Ash. says:

        Well more gibberish, you sound like Maajid Nawaaz trying to make a pitch from some government funding. So what next?
        I cant believe muslims are so narrow minded that they refuse to drink Alchohol.
        I cant believe muslims are so narrow minded that they refuse to eat pork.
        I cant believe muslims are so narrow minded that they dont believe adultery and fornication are virtuous. After all we live in western democracy we should become civilised, and if the west states walking naked in the street is civilicised we should accept it. Beyond that.
        I cant believe Islam so barbaric that consider lying as a bad thing.
        I cant believe Islam is so backward that it is considered incumbent to give Sadaqah to poor people, we live in western capitalist society civilised people know that it should be every man for himself.

        If your ignorant on whether homosexuality and all the above things I have mentioned are Halal or Haram then you have no business masquerading as some sort of spokensman and representative of Islam and Muslims…Judging by your comments on your blog I beginning to doubt whether you are familiar with the words Halal or Haram at all.

        • There is a world of difference between personally choosing to refuse alcohol, pork and on the other hand discriminating against others. Discriminating against others due to their religion or sexuality etc involves harm to others and should be condemned by all civilised people.

          Just because your interpretation of religion may be bigoted, you should have no right to impose that bigotry on others.

          Aren’t you grateful to live in a society that grants Muslims (and all other citizens) more freedoms than just about any Muslim society allows to non-Muslims?

          • Ash. says:

            Just because your interpretation of religion is deviant based on ignorant bigotry borne out of a Colonised mindset, you and your co-religionists Maajid Nawaaz, Usamah Hasan, Taj Hargey, Siddiq Khan, Ed Hussain et al. Have no right to impose your ignorant biogtry on mainstream muslims.

            Oppression, is Oppression no matter who is doing it or who is responsible or what form it takes or whether its in the guise of democracy or dictatorship,…. No where in the world are people being demonised, dehumanised, villified, ostracised, as the Muslims are in the west, with all the tools of media, being unleashed with impunity.

            • If you really think that Muslims in the West are vilified/ostracised more than say Muslims in Burma or Palestine, then I think you are even more unhinged that I previously thought.

              • Ash. says:

                On the contrary if you really think that Muslims in the West are being showered with love and freedom, and rose petals, and face no, villification, demonisation, ostracisation on a daily basis..the exact same kind of ostracisation that was the pre-cursor to the genocide that took place in Bosnia 20 years ago . I think you are even more delusional and unhinged then I thought.

                Well, well so you finally managed to recognise that muslims in Burma and Palestine are vilified, and oppressed, what caused this aberration?

          • James Coleman says:

            So come on Inayat, step up to the plate. Is practicing homosexuality haraam or halal in Islam?

            • How about “I don’t care. It’s none of my business what two consenting adults do in private?”

              • James Coleman says:

                Sorry did I ask you of your opinion. I asked what is the ruling of practicing homosexuality in Islam, according the Quran (We’ll leave the Sunnah for the moment). Is it haraam or halal? The question is very clear and unambiguous.
                And how does your “I don’t care” attitude square with the verse: (3:104) on enjoining good and forbidding evil. Do you accept some parts of the Quran and reject other parts?

                • No interpretation of a holy book should be allowed to trump basic human rights. So, while I agree that the current dominant opinion regarding homosexuality amongst Muslims may be that it is Haraam, that cannot be used to prevent two consenting adults from sleeping together if they so wish. By all means, you can believe that their behaviour is unnatural/sinful etc… But you cannot impose your beliefs on others to undermine their human rights. That is why secular liberal societies are generally far more tolerant and far nicer places to live than religious states.

  2. Gashlycrumb says:

    Ash

    “No where in the world are people being demonised, dehumanised, villified, ostracised, as the Muslims are in the west”

    You are funny

    • Ash. says:

      I am sure villfying, demonising, dehumanising, and ostracising muslims on a daily basis is funny to you…Let me tell you something thats even more funny, despite the billions you are spending on villifying muslims, that fastest growing religion in the west according to your media Islam, even the most committed Islamaphobes converting…you are failing and Insha’Allah you will continue to fail.

  3. Gashlycrumb says:

    Ash

    “I am sure villfying, demonising, dehumanising, and ostracising muslims on a daily basis is funny to you”

    No, that’s not funny. What’s funny is you, you’re comedy gold.

    • Ash. says:

      Please enlighten me as to what so funny My dear old thing?

      • Gashlycrumb says:

        Ash,

        Here’s a joke my little boy told me;

        Why was the broom late for school?
        Because it overswept.

        Now to explain why that is amusing would suck all the funniness out of it. So to answer your question, “Please enlighten me as to what so funny My dear old thing?”, I would say don’t worry about it old girl.

    • LibertyPhile says:

      Yes, he makes me laugh at times*, but it’s more sad than funny. All those Ash disagrees with are not simply wrong, they are wicked, they have base motives, such as financial gain, and/or they are ignorant, they know nothing about the subject at issue.

      I think he really believes the media deliberately picks on Muslims and Islam. Rupert phones the Barclay twins, “Hi Lads, what’s your anti-Muslim line this week. We’re going to do polygamy. The German, Justice Minister is going to clamp down on it. He says it’s against German law and custom!”

      He can’t get his head round the fact that millions of knowledgeable, reasonable and decent people, using their own judgement, find some Muslim beliefs and practices abhorrent or objectionable and what Muslims do and say is reported in the media.

      *E.g Islam the fastest growing religion!

      • LibertyPhile says:

        Proof, if proof were needed, is given below/June 17, 2016 at 11:51 am

      • Ash says:

        No what is laughable is that you have spend Trillions in villifying muslims, entire industry has been built around it. A guy even wrote a book called the “Islamaphobia Industry”.
        And you have failed according to your own media…this is borne by Census figures massive increase in converts from 2001 to 2011, we see the same pattern across Europe. Some of the most prominent figures on the speaking circuit are converts, Imam Suhaib Webb, Imam Siraj Wahhaj, Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, Imam Zaid Shakir, Shaykh abdur Raheem Green, Yousuf Chambers, Abdul Haq Bewley, Yusuf Etses etc, etc, etc.
        ALLAHU AKBAR.

  4. Ash. says:

    @Censhorshipile My Dear Old Chum so you have managed to gain some Dutch courage and decided to come back into the fray again, from what I recall I made you cry…to such an extent that you were appealing for censorship. Your ignorance and blind hatred were exposed incontrovertibly, your score is still Zero.

    “He can’t get his head round the fact that millions of knowledgeable, reasonable and decent people, using their own judgement, find some Muslim beliefs and practices abhorrent or objectionable and what Muslims do and say is reported in the media.”

    It was proven without doubt , that your not knowledgable infact completley ignorant , your not reasonable, your not decent, you have no ability to use your own judgement, just parrot what the Daily Mail and your paymasters and GCHQ tell you….Your blind hatred and those of your Ilk is quite clearly nonsense dangerous nonsense abhorrent and objectionable to all decent people, it is obvious you and your cohorts in the media and establishment wanna fuel a frenzy that leads to a genocide. Well we aint playing….

    “I think he really believes the media deliberately picks on Muslims and Islam.” That My Dear Old Chum is an incontrovertible fact, your pathetic denials are real funny, like a man sitting in in a rainstorm and denying its raining…So you wanna play some Detroit free style again? Maybe you can put up a better effort this time.

  5. Ash. says:

    This is a short clip of a lecture by Shaykh Yasir al Qadhi on Hypocritical double standard used by the Media how when the Terrorist is white he is always labelled as a Lonely depressed white guy suffering from mental health issues … this speech was made after the
    Orlando nightclub shootings two days before the Terrorist assasination of Jo Cox

  6. LibertyPhile says:

    Ash

    Yes, I am reluctant to address you directly because you usually respond with a load of personal abuse (which doesn’t bother me, but it is a waste of space) and hot air.

    But in case you do have something interesting to say, I will ask you a question on an issue that seems to trouble you greatly; press coverage of Muslims!

    What do you think of the recent reports concerning polygamy in Germany (which I referenced above)? Is it wrong for the press cover such stories? There isn’t any polygamy? There is nothing wrong with polygamy?
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3643411/Germany-scrap-cultural-immunity-no-longer-allow-migrants-multiple-marriages-child-brides.html

    I would also be interested in your views on the news report that a Muslim school gave pupils access to leaflets saying music and dancing were “acts of the devil”, a report by the BBC no less. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36548882 Is it unreasonable to report such a story? If so, why?

    And another one you might care to consider: “Who are the Pakistani group proposing to ‘lightly beat’ women?” http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36413037

    P.S. I wrote this before seeing the latest comments, and I think it is even more relevant!

    • Ash says:

      So let me get this straight, you get so traumatised by one random guy on the internet addressing you in a direct manner infact you consider it personal abuse and bluster.
      Yet you think it is perfectly acceptable for your media to use a fanaticcally rabid tone and tenor to villify dehumanise muslims on a Daily basis. A muslim faces much Tsunami of bigotry everyday, from the media, newspapers, Radio, TV, … Hell you find billions of comments all over the internet using most extreme profanity against muslims on social media and news websites, you can even go on youtube looking for Cooking recipes from around the Muslim world and you will individuals villifying and uttering profanities against Muslims. Yet you consider this rabid incitement by your media, as perfectly acceptable but get your knickers in a twist when a Muslim choses to defend himself in forthright tones…!

  7. Ash. says:

    My Dear Old Chap, let me get this I have just pointed out in my post about the double standard and the hypocrisy, of the Western Media…. so rather then address the concerns I highlighted instead you and make a feeble attempt of trying to distract attention from the blatant hypocrisy of the media….by posting some random news articles, that have no correlation to my above post or the topic of hand the refusal of the media to label terrorists as such because they have white complexion .

    As for the rest the following headlines speak for themselves about the agenda of your Nazi Media.

    https://www.google.co.uk/searchq=islamophobic+headlines&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=699&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjW7tfenLTNAhUlC8AKHauTCqMQ_AUIBigB

    Now my Dear Old Chum, if you still want a more thorough and comprehensive response from myself, I will be more then happy to accomodate, and give a forensic di-section, and point by point refutation…..Of course then you are going to moan about the length of my posts, balls in your court, as they say If you cant handle the Heat then stay out of the Kitchen.

  8. LibertyPhile says:

    What a shame! I really am interested in what you think of the rights or wrongs of those news reports!

    ====

    I don’t doubt for a moment that the Orlando killer was mentally disturbed, or that most of the other Muslim terrorists we have had the misfortune to experience in Europe in recent times were equally disturbed or mentally deranged in some way.

    But you miss the point.

    Millions of your follow Muslims believe what these young men (and women) did was justified. Millions of Muslims believe that homosexuality should be punished by death (and drawing pictures of your Prophet should be similarly punished).

    And I don’t just mean the barbarism we see in ISIS controlled territory. See below the recent news report of a British Muslim scholar’s views on homosexuality.

    Sooner or later you will have to recognise the fact that a very large number of your “fellow” Muslims have a different view of what your religion teaches, and instead of venting your anger and frustration on the likes of me, and modern minded Muslims, you should turn your attention on them. Islam (their Islam, not yours) seems to offer the mentally disturbed all kinds of reasons to commit inhuman acts.

    • Ash says:

      Seriously! After several months of the same propoganda, which resulted in you being humiliatingly being embarassed …Atleast have the courtesy to put in a better effort this time we are afterall entering round 3. this is too easy…. You spoke to Millions of Muslims? How many 1 million, 2 Million, 3 Million, how many did you speak to exactly? On the contrary most Muslims and even many non-muslims going by the videos on youtube, believe these Terrorist attacks where false flags, carried out by Mossad, CIA, MI6….ISIS was created by America and his allies incontrovertible fact..!

      As for the rest of your remarks, sounds like poorly researched moronic tabloid propaganda that one finds repeated on Islamaphobe websites …! Fret not I will give a more thorough response in due course..!

      In the meantime exposing lies and hypocrisy of the hypocrites and full condemnation of Terrorism, in all its forms whether the perpetrators Brown Skinned Muslims, or White Skinned Christians,
      Here is brother Boona Muhammad….. https://youtu.be/DjET-FjFa2Q

      ..

  9. LibertyPhile says:

    CLERIC WHO PREACHED DEATH FOR HOMOSEXUAL ACTS AND TOURED ORLANDO VISITS SYDNEY*

    A controversial British cleric who toured Orlando in March and preaches that “death is the sentence” for homosexual acts is scheduled to speak in Sydney throughout June.
    Farrokh Sekaleshfar, a British-born doctor and senior Shia Muslim scholar, travelled to Orlando two months ago to give a lecture about homosexuality in Islamic law.
    He said in a 2013 lecture in Michigan on the same subject that “death is the sentence for homosexual acts” in Islam and this was “nothing to be embarrassed about”.

    Sekaleshfar framed the death sentence as an act of compassion. “You have to be happy for that person,” he said. “We believe in an afterlife, we believe in an eternal life … and with this sentence you will be forgiven and you won’t be accountable in the hereafter.”
    He is scheduled to speak every evening throughout Ramadan, the Islamic holy month, at the Imam Husain Islamic Centre in Earlwood, in Sydney’s south-west. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/13/orlando-terror-attacks-muslim-cleric-death-for-homosexual-acts-sydney

    *The visit was cancelled

    This is also worth reading:

    BBC RELIGION CHIEF SAYS IT IS WRONG TO SUGGEST ISIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM

    People should admit the “uncomfortable” truth that Islamic State is made up of Muslims and their doctrine is Islamic, the BBC’s head of religion told an audience of students. Professor Aaqil Ahmed, the first Muslim to hold the role at the corporation, said it was wrong to suggest the terrorist group “has nothing to do with Islam” during a speech at Huddersfield University last week.
    …. “It might be wrong but what they are saying is an ideology based on some form of Islamic doctrine.” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/bbc-religion-chief-says-it-is-wrong-to-suggest-isis-has-nothing-to-do-with-islam-a7060871.html

  10. Ash says:

    My Dear Old Chum, I am busy over the next few weeks until the 9th of July but dont worry you will receive a full di-section, thereafter and a complete Detroit Freestyle Academics re-buttall …In the meantime why dont you stop playing dodgeball, give a straightforward answer as to why there are no headlines mentioning the “white Christian Terrorist” who killed the MP Jo Cox? …. Much of your bluster has been dealt with, by Yasir qadhi in the video I linked above if you disputing what he stated then why have you not provided a point by point refutation, concerning the hypocrisy double standard of the media?

    • The suspected killer of Jo Cox MP is indeed to be treated as a suspected terrorist according to a news article today.

      http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thomas-mair-man-accused-murdering-8239381

      What makes you think he is a Christian? Did he shout “In Jesus’s name” before the killing?

      • Ash says:

        As was widely reported he shouted Britain First …. The name of an extreme right wing party that calls it self Christian and has video all over youtube where they carry out so-called “Christian Patrols” by going out and shouting abuse at muslims by the same standard the media applies towards muslims in reporting such incidents, and as they say what is good for the Goose is Good for the Gander by those same standards I think it is perfectly reasonable to call this guy a White Christian Terrorist..

  11. LibertyPhile says:

    “….. believe these Terrorist attacks where false flags, carried out by Mossad, CIA, MI6”

    …. and the moon is made of green cheese.

    “….ISIS was created by America and his allies incontrovertible fact..!”

    America created the circumstances that allowed ISIS to form but its character is of its own making and based on its interpretation of Islam, that, for example, involves throwing homosexuals off high buildings.

    “Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot’s people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.” Abu Dawud 38:4447

    What do you think should be done to homosexuals, if anything?

    ====

    Mair may be white and he may be a Christian but a better description, one with a relevant link to his motives (and justification) for his terrorist act would be something like “Extreme British Nationalist/Xenophobe Terrorist”.

    Why do you keep mentioning colour? I can’t think of any recent “Muslim” terrorist act where the colour of the perpetrators has been in the headlines.

    • Ash says:

      The Book by Trevor Aaronson “Terror Factory, The : Inside the FBI’s Manufactured War on Terrorism”… and there is also a lecture of his on youtube.

      Fact the west created ISIS and the ideology of ISIS also confirmed by American General Wesley Clarke, his interview with CNN is also available on Youtube.

      What does your Bible say about Homosexuality and the people Lot??? Please enlighten us. Fact Homosexuals only a few decades ago was illegal in the U.k. various extreme sentences were imposed, from electric shock therapy to chemical castration. Most famously Alan Turring British code breaker during the second world war, committed suicide after being chemically castrated.

      Well if your going to apply a certain criteria in order to judge Muslim Terrorists, and imply the entire muslims community is responsible for their terrorism, Then same criteria needs to apply to Mair, who is a Terrorist with links to White Supremacist Christian organisations…!

  12. LibertyPhile says:

    Some more info. for you to consider:

    NORWAY SALAFIST: ‘HOMOSEXUAL DEATH PENALTY’ MISUNDERSTOOD

    Islam Net, which was founded by Qureshi in 2008, holds information meetings across Norway – known for their separation of men and women – which, according to the organisation’s web site, aim to make information about Islam more accessible for the public.

    In a recording from one such meeting in 2013, Qureshi appears to say that supporting the death sentence for homosexuals, as well as stoning to punish adultery, was not an extreme view for Muslims but a mainstream one

    Qureshi told NRK News Radio show Dagsnytt 18 on Thursday that the video had been misunderstood, and that he expressed himself in a way that could be misinterpreted.
    http://www.thelocal.no/20160617/norway-salafist-denies-support-for-homosexual-death-penalty

    ==

    Same-sex intercourse carries the death penalty in five officially Muslim nations: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Mauritania, Sudan, and Yemen. …. The legal situation in the United Arab Emirates is unclear. In many Muslim nations, such as Bahrain, Qatar, Algeria or the Maldives, homosexuality is punished with jail time, fines or corporal punishment. In some Muslim-majority nations, such as Turkey, Jordan, Egypt, or Mali, same-sex intercourse is not forbidden by law. However, in Egypt gays have been the victims of laws against “morality”. Iran is perhaps the nation to execute the largest number of its citizens for homosexuality. Since its Islamic revolution in Iran, the Iranian government has executed more than 4000 people charged with homosexual acts
    http://www.religionfacts.com/homosexuality/islam

    • Ash says:

      How many Christian countries is it a Death penalty? What kind of Punishments and treated were meted out by the British a few decades ago?…

      What does your copy of the Bible say about punishment for Homosexuality?
      Leviticus 20:13
      “ ‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

  13. LibertyPhile says:

    The Americans created the circumstances which allowed ISIS to create itself. Its beliefs, practices and polices are entirely of its own making, and based on its version of Islam, which has a long history in the Middle East long before the Americans came on the scene.

    ##

    No large modern western democracy has laws against homosexuality. And that probably accounts for around 90-95% of the Christian world.

    The previous laws against homosexuality fell into disuse – and were widely criticised – long before the laws were repealed. Even if the treatment of homosexuals was vile no one was put to death. And, the Christian world is able to change its ways.

    Fortunately, most Christians, and I mean 90-95%, don’t believe the Bible is the word of God. Many think it is a rather dubious “history” book.

    Whereas Muslims are lumbered with the belief that the Quran is the word of God, correct in every way and right for all time. See the recent row in Australia and the Australian Grand Mufti’s remarks.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3678085/Grand-Mufti-Australia-pens-letter-defending-Sheikh-Shady-Alsuleiman.html

    “He said ‘no person can ever change’ Islam’s long-standing position on homosexuality and added it was no different to beliefs in other religions.”

    ##

    I do not believe “the entire muslims community is responsible for their terrorism”. I believe the Islamic holy texts are responsible.

    • Ash says:

      No fact is America and its army of Baron Frankensteins in the intelligence agencies recruited this guy Al Baghdadi, trained him, funded him….Even created his cultish ideology in their notorious department of mind control and manipulation in Langley in Virginia, taught him sophisticated electronic methods of Psychological imagery and propoganda to recruit indviduals to his Cult…All the roads lead back to Rome and its empire.

      In the words of Malcolm X …” What America is doing around the world is criminal and they are doing to get people to go along with that is criminal, You cant be so blinded by Nationalism, Patriotism Imperialism or any other kind of ism to realise wrong is worng, no matter who is doing it or who is responsible.”

      If one goes back far enough in European History, we find there were no laws against Homosexuality somewhere along the line that way of thinking fell into disuse Homosexuality was subsequently made illegal in accordance with Judeo/Christian scripture and Homosexuality was a capital offence, various innovative methods were used to punish Homosexuality, and this lasted for Centuries more then Millenia…., And any cultures around the world who did not accept the Western/European position on Homosexuality were mocked ridiculed described immoral savages and barbnarians! then somewhere along the line they decided to go to the opposite extreme and start promoting Homosexuality, and villifying anyone who does not accept their newfound position on Homosexuality and now trying impose this position on others….!
      Since these Hypocrites amongst the ruling elite in the west the likes of Michael Gove, and David Cameron keep shouting our heritage is Christian, when its suits their interests.
      Then we are Muslims will let the Bible be the decider arbitrar on this issue.

      Having read the article in full that you posted only controversy I see is the Zionist extremists in the Media going on a witchhunt…More Hypocrisy, these Hypocrites a year ago where walking around wearing badges with “Je Suis Charlie” and talking about “absolute Freedom to offend”

      In recent months we saw a massive witch hunt against 2 Christian gentlemen from the profession of pugilism… Legendary Boxer Manny Pacuqaio, who the media claim implied that homosexuals were worse than animals, and Tyson Fury who the media claim stated that Homosexuality was pure evil …Suddenly they forget “je suis Charlies” and “Absolute Freedom To offend”, and launched a media witch hunt against both. Mass campaign was launched against commercial and brand sponsors of Manny Pacquaio forcing them to withdraw sponsorship….Note both Manny Pacquaio based their opinions on Homosexuality on Christian Scripture.

      Considering your Holy texts of Zionism say you have the right to colonise, and impose tyrants and dictators, invade and bomb countries to smithereens, use depleted uranium, phophorous bombs, and other weapons of mass destruction, ethnically cleanse,steal and sell the lands of people from Palestine to Kashmir and collude in their oppression for your Economic interests. I dont think you are in a position my dear Colonel to be commenting on anybodies Holytexts…(Chant slogans of Human rights and violate human rights all around the world, for Economic interests…Chant slogans of Democracy
      try organise coups to overtrow democratically elected regimes that do not bow to your colonial power, your Zionist Media can go obscure places around the world to dig out propaganda stories but give zero coverage to the barbaric treatment of Dr Aafia Siddiqui)

  14. LibertyPhile says:

    Do you ever take time to think about the outrageous conspiracy claims you believe in? So, the American secret services know how to brainwash a man so he can create the “Islamic State”! They are certainly very clever these Americans, thousands, tens of thousands of Muslims flock to his cause, from youthful jihadists to the battle hardened ex-Bathist thugs of Saddam.

    No doubt you also believe Mossad was responsible for 9/11 notwithstanding the reality of Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is genuine.

    The rest of your remarks simply show you have nothing worthwhile to say regarding the points I have made regarding homosexuality and Islam (which is what this discussion is meant to be about).

  15. Ash says:

    I wrote 2 posts in response neither have been posted so I will leave it at that!

  16. Ash says:

    We did have a problem previously were my post not getting through because of the length, so that could be it, or perhaps its because I included quite a few links to newspapers, maybe wordpress has a limit to the number of links you can include, per post….I have saved one of the posts so I will try and clean it up shorten and try reposting over the next week when I have time.

  17. Ash says:

    (Part 2 of 2)
    So lets take a little look at these three individuals … (Note: Muslim Community has believed for years all these guys were lackeys of British intelliegence, and these claims have been routinley dismissed as conspiracy theories). Well Abu Hamza Al Misari during his trial in America as widely reported in the media is MI5 …. The Daily Telegraph ran an article 7/5/2014 entitlted “Abu Hamza ‘secretly worked for MI5’ to ‘keep streets of London safe’ .
    Abu Qatada The Times newspaper on 25th of March 2004 ran article on Abu Qatada with the headline.. ‘Al-Qaeda cleric exposed as an MI5 double agent,’.

    Omar Bakri worked for British intelligence http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-nafeez-mosaddeq-ahmed/mi5-terror-plots_b_3352781.html despite Bakris hand in various Terror plots by his own admission, Bakri the authorities refused to prosecute for fear of being exposed for their complicity.
    What is stunning here is your double standard and hypocrisy old chap where is your condemnation of this?… For some one who collects headlines and calls himself “reasonable”I can defend my position on everything I stated… as for 9/11 anyone who believes the official story is a nincompoop the official story of 9/11 must in itself be the most ridiculous conspiracy theory ever.

    As for Protocols of Zion I dont know much about them quick google search reveals questions raised by Henry Ford as to how the Mission Statement highlighted in the Protocols turned out to be over the subsequent decades to be surprisingly Prophetic… All I know for certainty is that the Zionist lobby controls the media in the west, and because of this their lobbies exercise a powerful influence in both Whitehall and the Whitehouse, and everyone from the President of the United States to the Mayor of London have to first pledge allegiance to Israel and Zionism in order to get elected. Looks like Henry Ford was onto something. The rest of my remarks clearly exposed your hypocrisy, the position of Islam and Homosexuality is no different to Judaism and Homosexuality or Christianity and Homosexuality or any other major religious tradition in any corner of the world and Homosexuality.

  18. Ash says:

    This is getting weird first part of my post gone missing again.

  19. Ash says:

    Part 1 of 2

    I dont think the Americans brainwashed Al Baghdadi at all quite obvious he has been working for them all along. … Several years ago the worshippers and trustees of a Mosque in California, became so concerned by a new member of their congregation, who was calling for , Violent Terrorism and extermination of Americans, and trying to recruit others. They called the FBI and subsequently it turned out that this individual by the name of Craig Monteilh was not even a muslim, he was an ex-convict recruited and trained by the FBI themselves to infiltrate the local community, and encourage Terrorism… This widely reported in by your own Zionist Media, even The vile and disgusting Daily Mail reported it …. on 6 December 2010 with an article headlined,
    ‘FBI informant scares Muslim suspects so much with his talk of violent jihad that they report HIM to authorities’

    The above is not an isolated incident, Trevor Aaronson, in his book “Terror Factory, Inside the FBI’s Manufactured War on Terrorism”… Has given a whole list of cases were the FBI recruited and trained Ex-Convicts to pose as Muslims and go out and promote terrorism. The people attracted to this agent provocateurs were people with Mental Illnesses such as Schizophrenia and amazingly the FBI after attracting these mentally ill individuals via there Agent Provocateurs
    then convicted them on various conspiracies to commit Terrorism. Talk about lunatics running the asylum Trevor Aaronson can be found on youtube …! What is Outrageous is individuals like yourself supporting such deplorable behaviour.

    The above cases are not Isolated to America we had similar behaviour by Canadian intelligence…. As for the the UK the guys presented as the Doyens of terrorism are, Abu Hamza al Misari, Omar Bakri Muhammad, Abu Qatada, and virtually all the various plotterss were inspired by these three individuals, including 7/7 and the killers of Lee Rigby.

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