Sadiq Khan On ‘Why Charles Moore Is Wrong About British Muslims’

Sadiq-Khan

The Shadow Justice Secretary, Sadiq Khan, has written a fine piece for the Daily Telegraph online today responding to Charles Moore. Charles Moore – an influential conservative columnist and former editor of the Daily Telegraph – wrote a column in last Saturday’s paper in which he expressed dismay that the barbaric killing of Lee Rigby in Woolwich last month was being allegedly ‘forgotten’ by the media and he seemed to belittle the ferocity of the anti-Muslim backlash that has followed saying that “the only serious violence was against a British soldier”.

Khan reminds Moore that there have been a number of arson attacks against mosques around the country since the Woolwich killing including incidents involving children being evacuated in the middle of the night from Islamic boarding schools following arson attacks.

Anyway, it is good to see Sadiq Khan facing Charles Moore down. You do not  honour the memory of a murdered soldier by trying whitewash how far right groups have been busy exploiting that killing to whip up animosity towards UK Muslims.

Sadiq Khan came in for considerable criticism earlier this year from parts of the UK Muslim community for voting in favour of same sex marriages. I argued at the time that Sadiq had done the right thing by voting in favour of gay equality. It must be better to live in a society where legislation seeks to prohibit discrimination against others based on their gender, ethnicity, faith or sexual orientation than one that does not. It is an important lesson that many Islamic movements have yet to grasp.

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14 Responses to Sadiq Khan On ‘Why Charles Moore Is Wrong About British Muslims’

  1. azhar says:

    Thank God! What would we have done without Sadiq?

    Same sex marriage will be enforced in all religious institutions in the future and i’m sure you will be cheer leading it on, along with Sadiq.

  2. LibertyPhile says:

    This is the problem: statements like these from people like Sadiq Khan.

    “…. not only is there no place in British society for such extremist positions, but there is no place in my religion, the religion that I share with 2.7 million others across the UK. It is incumbent on us all to root out the bad apples, and not shy away from tackling head on the very small numbers who preach hatred and violence.

    And:

    “Like “Britishness”, Islam is about respect, tolerance and understanding. So, to tar a whole community on the basis of a the smallest of minorities is dangerous.”

    Looking at the world around us you would have to be nuts to believe Islam is about “respect, tolerance and understanding”. And it’s only a few bad apples!! Very small numbers!!

    Did you see the results of the survey in Jordan showing the frighteningly high proportion of young people who believe in honour killing? (Yes, I know you think it’s to do with culture. Well, I think religion is pretty much part of that culture.)

    Anyway, until we have a significant number of Muslims who genuinely recognise there is a problem within Islam (Blair finally got something right!) and are prepared to do something about, I’ll go along with what Charles Moore says.

    And, I would say trying to decapitate a person with a machete in the name of your religion is a “worse” crime than the failed and wicked revenge acts Khan mentions, if one has to compare acts of evil.

  3. azhar says:

    Yes Islam is a massive problem. For you that is and Inayat!

    P.S. Jordan’s christian community also dabble in honor killings, along with the Copts, Syrians and Iraqi Christians.

  4. LibertyPhile says:

    I’m sure you are right. I didn’t realise there were any Christians left in that part of the world!

    Yes, I have a “problem” with Islam, call it massive if you will. It continually amazes me that so many otherwise sane people can believe such nonsense. I would say the same about Christianity, but for Christians it seems much easier to choose which bits of their religion make sense, here, now, in the 21st century.

    Regarding Islam as a religion of Peace, the following is well worth reading.

    “Recently, the journalist Paul Sheehan, reflecting on the Woolwich beheading of Drummer Lee Rigby, invited consideration of the view of Muslim violence in authoritative Islamic texts.

    In the Sydney Morning Herald of May 27, 2013, Sheehan observed that the Koran and the teachings of Muhammad seem to be a factor behind Muslim violence, and offered these critical observations:

    (1) Many violent attacks on civilians are done in the name of Islam.

    (2) The existence of violent Islamic sectarian conflict and the repression of religious dissent in Muslim nations give the lie to the “absurd claim” that Islam is “the religion of peace.”

    (3) Many verses in the Koran call for violence against unbelievers, and these are invoked by Muslims who murder others

    A rejoinder was published the next day by Associate Professor Mohamad Abdalla, founding director of the Islamic Research Unit at Griffith University in Queensland, Australia.

    Abdalla rejected the proposition that Islam supports killing innocent people: “A contextual reading of the Koran or Hadith leads to one conclusion only: there is no justification for killing of innocent people…”

    Read on here: http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3771/violence-islamic-texts

  5. azhar says:

    You really are boring.

    Along with being insincere in your research on Islam and muslims. Its so tiring debating with people who have such a blatant hatred of muslims and therefor their identity marker – Islam.

    Your website is just a treasure trove of porn for Islamaphobes. It really is sad that you spend your time on misinformation. Not because it is morally wrong, but because you will never be a Robert Spencer, Geller, Hirsi Ali or any other starlet of the neoconservative,right wing mass murdering bastards, who put our security at risk for national interests. Which just makes you all the more pathetic.

    Now on this Lee Rigby murder. Which is unjustified in the texts (if you are sincere you can ask a western scholar by the name of Timothy Winter Aka Abdal Hakin Murad, his white skin may reassure you). Isn’t it funny that this is the first successful attack amongst several failed ones perpetrated by a member of the British Muslim community after many decades of an unjust foreign policy. You would think that all this feasting on supposed violence emanating from the texts of Islam would have produced many,many more attacks. Say on par with the IRA who killed scores more British soldiers on the mainland.

    Your bullshit doesn’t add, It’s just sooooo fucking boring.

  6. LibertyPhile says:

    (1) Do please take note what you call “misinformation” comes from sources such as, amongst others, the BBC, Reuters, The Washington Post, guardian.co.uk, AP, The New York Times, The Scotsman, The Kuwait News Agency, Ahram Online, independent.co.uk, Middle East Online, The Christian Science Monitor, Agence France-Presse, The Huffington Post UK, etc., etc.

    (2) I am familiar with the ideas of Timothy Winter and wrote this about them:

    “Timothy Winter, a Cambridge University professor and prominent Muslim religious leader believes the classical Islamic thinkers and jurists got it right.

    “[Quote from Esposito on Winter] Winter insists that Islam’s past heritage, the classical Islamic tradition, not Islamic fundamentalism or Islamic modernism, holds the key to the future of Islam and Muslims. The providential success story of Islamic civilization needs to be reappropriated and built on: Muslim extremism, Winter contends, is a by-product of modernity and globalization. [End Quote]”

    Muslim extremism …. is a by-product of modernity and globalization! That is rich! Extremism, the use of violence to obtain political ends has been an essential part of Islamic expansion, globalisation you can call it, since Islam’s foundation 1400 years ago. It was armies not missionaries that reached the Pyrenees and the Indus valley, that captured Constantinople and besieged Vienna.”

    (3) You seem to have forgotten the July bus and tube bombings. How many Londoners died in that?

    (4) It seems to me that Muslims like you can’t accept, or even recognise, that other Muslims interpret the religion differently (and they are still Muslims!) The violence that goes on throughout the Muslim world, if not on the same scale in this country, makes the IRA look very tame.

    (5) I would also love to know how and where you’ve got your knowledge of Britain’s “many decades of an unjust foreign policy”.

  7. azhar says:

    Nearly fell asleep reading your post. I should read your bullshit to remedy my sleeping problems.

    1) Come up with a conclusion from prejudice, then find all the right wing and or Islamaphobic columnists who publish their tripe on some of the news publications you mentioned and call it information. You can call it that but i like to look at the evidence then come to a conclusion.

    2) “[Quote from Esposito on Winter] Winter insists that Islam’s past heritage, the classical Islamic tradition, not Islamic fundamentalism or Islamic modernism, holds the key to the future of Islam and Muslims. The providential success story of Islamic civilization needs to be reappropriated and built on: Muslim extremism, Winter contends, is a by-product of modernity and globalization. [End Quote]”

    Beautifully said! You come your conclusions before considering the evidence. That is why it is ‘rich’ to you.

    3) Many died, including muslims. But i would say more died from say British soldiers bombing wedding parties and so on.

    4) Muslims like me do recognise it and repudiate those that commit such extreme actions along with repudiating western foreign policy. Muslims hate terrorism particularly. Look at the example of the Luxor Massacre, where 62 tourists were massacred by a so called Islamic group, others point to a conspiracy. They then decided to commit suicide after they were outgunned. The point is the reaction of the muslim population, Whom you would like to tar with the brush of fanatical, child murdering, honour killing savages. They came out protesting spontaneously, their anger was directed at the extremists groups who immediately distanced themselves from the attacks.

    Now look at the reaction of the Lee Rigby murder in Afghanistan. Many praised the two Michaels. Why? Maybe because their children got stabbed and abused by foreign soldiers on their land who came and bombed their houses and slaughtered their families. No that cant be it. It must be the Ko-Ran and that Mohammad (SAW). It doesn’t matter that the majority of Afghans are illiterate, it’s the KO-RAN cos that right wing journalist Paul Sheehan said so.

    5) Your kidding me right? British foreign policy is an extension of their Imperial colonial policy. Which America has taken up. This is to appropriate resources for their national interests. It means clandestine and open operations to unseat democratic secular or Islamist governments who don’t play ball. For example Irans Mohammad Mosaddegh, desposed by Britain and America in 1953.

    If you want more information on British foreign policy then please visit your local library or you can start designing modern concentration camps for your honour killing moslem neighbours. I heard you civilised Brits invented that shit or maybe it was your ‘unjust foreign policy’ nutters.

    If anyone would like to know more about boringphile and his modes operandi then please click this link http://www.loonwatch.com/tag/libertyphile/

  8. LibertyPhile says:

    (1) “I heard you civilised Brits ….” Are you a Brit, may I ask? I am, though I come from one of the colonial bits.

    (2) I’ve been thinking of Winter’s view that a past form (one that I think is more imagination and wishful thinking than anything else) is the way forward for Islam. He thinks the problems that Islam has now are a by-product of modernity and globalization

    It seems to me that a belief system that can’t cope with change is sadly lacking.

    (3) “… It means clandestine and open operations to unseat democratic secular or Islamist governments who don’t play ball. For example Iran’s Mohammad Mosaddegh, desposed by Britain and America in 1953.”

    What of Egypt, the largest Arab/Muslim country in the Middle East? Do you think the West installed Nasser! And Gadaffi, he was a real Western puppet. And, dare I mention Saddam Hussein. We (the West) were ever so pleased when he (and the Baaths before him) came to power. And, the Iran/Iraq war which killed over 1 million Muslims is really the West’s fault!

    Oddly enough one of the few regimes in the Middle East with a degree of traditional “legitimacy” is the most awful, Saudi Arabia, steeped in religion. The Saudis ruled there long before the Americans arrived and oil became important, and kicked out the British puppet, the Sharif of Mecca.

    Now, whatever the mistakes made by the Americans, British and French, most of the turmoil in the Middle East, I have to tell you, springs from the culture dominated and perpetuated by Islam.

    No, I’m not kidding you. I would like to know the sources and books – some of, at least – on which you base your views on Western foreign policy.

    For example, I have a very poor opinion of Mossadegh, having read (most of, and believe me it really is boring!) his recent biography, “Patriot of Persia – Muhammad Mossadegh and a very British Coup” (Bodley Head).

  9. azhar says:

    1) Boring. Are you lonely and need of a friend. You can find many here http://www.stormfront.org/forum/, or here http://englishdefenceleague.org/

    2) Boring. Your knowledge of the Islamic “belief system” can be written on the back of a postage stamp.

    3) Boring and silly. Nasser and Sadam were western, secular nationalist who suppressed their Islamic brethren. In other words they were atheist and secular like you, It wasn’t the west’s fault that 1 million muslims died. No they were pursuing human rights, democracy etc when they were selling Saddam chemical weapons.

    4) Saudi being legitimate – Ha – pull the other one. “…I have to tell you, springs from the culture dominated and perpetuated by Islam.”. Oh right, the Brits and the Americans were pursuing democracy, human rights etc.

    Lastly, Chomsky, Pilger, Edward Said, Mark Curtis, John Aldred (college reading), Finkelstein, and even Bernard Lewis. I assume you worship the latter, including Hitchens and Dawkins.

    In your spare time go and find out why the Irish call the Union Jack the butchers apron and why British soldiers wore red uniforms.

    It’s funny how you didn’t address many of the points i made in my previous posts so unless you have something of interest, which i really doubt, i wont be replying.

    A bit of advice which i like to follow.

    Therefore, the seeker after the truth is not one who studies the writings of the ancients and, following his natural disposition, puts his trust in them, but rather the one who suspects his faith in them and questions what he gathers from them, the one who submits to argument and demonstration, and not to the sayings of a human being whose nature is fraught with all kinds of imperfection and deficiency. Thus the duty of the man who investigates the writings of scientists, if learning the truth is his goal, is to make himself an enemy of all that he reads, and, applying his mind to the core and margins of its content, attack it from every side. He should also suspect himself as he performs his critical examination of it, so that he may avoid falling into either prejudice or leniency. Abu Ali Ibn Haitham (965)

  10. LibertyPhile says:

    You didn’t answer my question. Are you a Brit?

    “Chomsky, Pilger, Edward Said, Mark Curtis, John Aldred (college reading), Finkelstein, and even Bernard Lewis.”

    Only one and a half historians! I think Bernard Lewis is excellent.

    You really will have to wake up one day and realise that the strife in the Middle East (and the Muslim world in general) is largely of its own making. Even if you think the Americans, British, and French have played a bad part (and I don’t think it is as bad as you make out) the culture, tribalism, and religious ethos, have been a far bigger factor.

    I’ve addressed most if not all the points you have made, but it is sometimes difficult to tell what they are, you are so full of venom.

    You really don’t seem to follow the advice you recommend. “He should also suspect himself as he performs his critical examination of it, so that he may avoid falling into either prejudice or leniency”.

  11. azhar says:

    “You didn’t answer my question. Are you a Brit?” I’m an old fashioned Brit.

    “Only one and a half historian” or seven thorns in your side.

    So when this article was posted and all this time before, it was Izlam, the Ko-Ran and those Mooozlims but now its colonialism, culture, tribalism and religious ethos. Hallelujah, there is some hope for you yet.

    “So full of venom” That is so rich coming from an Islamaphobe.

    “You really don’t seem to follow the advice you recommend. “He should also suspect himself as he performs his critical examination of it, so that he may avoid falling into either prejudice or leniency”. Yes i have and i will continue to do so because the Qu’ran (proper pronunciation can be heard on youtube not Pameella Geller et al) says – Say, “Are the ones who are blind in respect of the mind equal to those who are endowed with mental perception and understanding? Will you not then THINK & REFLECT?”

    The root of the word TAFAKKUR is F-K-R. This root appears in Quran about 18 times. It has the following meanings:

    – To think upon, consider or examine a thing

    – To consider a thing in order to obtain a clear knowledge of it

    – To employ one’s mind, thought or mental consideration upon something

    – To reflect, think on, ponder over

    – To consider, contemplate, ponder with care, attention and endeavour

    – Arranging of known things [in the mind] in order to attain [the knowledge of] unknown [thing]

    Heed its advice Islamaphobe like Ibn Haitham did. You may one day fall in love with this religion god willing and/or become a more productive member of society, instead of spouting venom behind a computer screen. The venom whom the ignorant on both sides lap up for us old fashioned Brits to come into conflict.

  12. LibertyPhile says:

    (1) “Isn’t it funny that this is the first successful attack amongst several failed ones perpetrated by a member of the British Muslim community after many decades of an unjust foreign policy.”

    You brought up foreign policy etc., and others like you mention it ad nauseam as the reason (and by implication, justification) for the type of violence we saw in Woolwich.

    (2) To return to the original post and the issue between Charles Moore and Sadiq Kahn.

    I am highly critical of Islam. Its teachings lead some Muslims to do/believe dreadful things. Note the use of the word “some”.

    You, a Muslim, agree that terrible things are done by some Muslims (in your opinion very few), but you say they are wrong about Islam (not real Muslims, perhaps). And, I should shut up. Talking about it implies/means all Muslims do/believe dreadful things, and that is obviously not true.

    I think the consequences of shutting up are far worse than those of speaking out. The problem won’t go away and might get worse. Keeping quite will encourage the people with the wrong ideas.

    The price of this is, unfortunately, some people will have their feelings hurt, they think they are tarred with the same brush. Though I don’t think the problem is as bad as is made out. And, I don’t think there is any comparison with the persecution of the Jews.

    Also, and this is my perspective, those Muslims who don’t do/believe dreadful things might one day wonder if there is something wrong with a religion that is so easily and so widely misinterpreted.

    And, most importantly, why should I believe your version of Islam is the true one?

  13. azhar says:

    What a waste of time.

  14. dave says:

    I was watching out at the gay pride parade for a special float with inayat, saddiq khan and majid nawaz, was disappointed I missed it.

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